Arthur Hayes and NEAR started an interview: HIPE's target price is 150 and NEAR has 20 times more space

Original video title: Arthur Hayes & Illia Polosukhin: Privacy Is The Last 1000x (NEAR & ZEC)
Source: The Rollup

Original language: Deep tide TechFlow

Summary of highlights

The Rollup invited Arthur Hayes and Illia Polosukhin to discuss the investment logic of macro-liquidation, privacy assets, NEAR intentions (Intents), AI and chain executives, and HYPE, NEAR, ZEC。

Arthur argues that war, the AI arms race, and the rebuilding of supply chains are pushing the US, China, and Europe to continue to support the economy through debt and monetary expansion, and that liquidity eventually spills over into Bitcoin and a few encrypted assets with real narratives and revenues。

Illia emphasizes that privacy is not an option, but a prerequisite for large-scale adoption, to enter the daily payment, pay, invoice and AI smart economy. Both believed that the encryption market was moving from non-differentiated speculation to a fundamental screening phase and that privacy, sovereignty, real income and the capture of token values would be the most important main lines in the next phase。

Summary of outstanding views

MACRO MOBILITY AND AI ARMS RACE

• “AI HAS BECOME PART OF NATIONAL DEFENCE. UAVS, AI INTELLIGENCE AND BATTLEFIELD DECISION-MAKING ARE ALL INTEGRATED INTO THE WAR SYSTEM, AND THE GOVERNMENT WILL PRINT MONEY TO WIN THE WAR.”

• “States have in the past based food and energy supplies on numerous assumptions, but when key shipping lanes such as the Strait of Hormuz become unstable, holding United States Treasury bonds does not help them feed their populations.”

• “These savings, which exist in the form of United States Treasury bonds, ultimately need to be sold for real goods, redundant supply chains and energy corridors”

• "Bitcoin has the advantage that if there are more French units tomorrow than today, its price will rise mathematically, it is pure mathematics, but everything else is very dependent on narratives."

L1 COMLINK INTEGRATION AND ENCRYPTION MARKET FUNDAMENTALS RETURN

• “SECTOR SPACE IS ALREADY A VERY COMMON COMMODITY AND SUPPLY IS FAR GREATER THAN DEMAND. THE ONLY PROBLEM IN THE PAST WAS THAT SUCH COMMODITIES WERE HIGHLY IRREPLACEABLE. THE NEAR BET ON THE ABSTRACT AND INTENT OF THE CHAIN IS TO MAKE THEM INTERCHANGEABLE. IN OTHER WORDS, EACH CHAIN, EVERY ASSET, EVERY USER CAN BE TRULY CONNECTED WITHOUT HAVING TO THINK ABOUT WHICH BLOCK THEY ARE USING.”

• "The logic of the past is disappearing: we buy an asset because there's a bunch of loosers coming in. There is now a considerable reduction in the risk bias of the diaspora. There is a greater concern about whether oil and food can be affordable next year, rather than speculating on an asset”

• “Markets are turning to focus on which assets really generate income, have real products and users”

• "A COMPLETE DILUTION IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR A CHAIN. THERE'S ALSO A HUGE INSTITUTIONAL UNLOCKING PRESSURE ON THE TOP OF MANY PROJECTS, AND THE NEAR ALREADY HAS RELATIVELY CLEAN UPPER SPACE

Zcash and privacy assets underestimated

• "Nothing is more normal than having a private currency on the Internet. Zcash and Monero represent exactly this need."

• "WHEN TECHNOLOGY, GOVERNMENT AND AI BECOME MORE AND MORE CAPABLE OF TRACKING EVERYTHING IN OUR LIVES, IT BECOMES EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO PROVE FINANCIAL PRIVACY IN THE FORM OF ENCRYPTION."

• "If you have Zcash, but you don't have a shield, why do you have it?"

• “Zcash and NEAR form the core of my private investment theory: in a world where AI, big technology and big government coexist, privacy will be reawakened to the market, and Maelstrom will profit from it.”

– "I think NEAR has 20 times its potential in the next year, and Zcash could be about five times."

NEAR INTENT, PRIVACY TRANSACTIONS AND MASS ADOPTION

• “If we want the chain of blocks to be truly integrated into everyday life, it cannot happen without privacy, which is actually a prerequisite for the large-scale use of encryption”

• “If I pay at a coffee shop, I don't want the store to know how much money I have, or the world to know I just consumed there.”

• “The intention of privacy is not only to hold a private asset, but to allow transfers, transactions, payments, proceeds and more operations to be performed confidentially between all assets.”

• “Pays, invoices and many examples that were once considered suitable for encryption are difficult to really happen in a fully transparent chain”

AI SMART AND CHAIN TOP EXECUTIVE LAYER

"IN THE FUTURE, WE'LL USE IT THROUGH AI, AND THE BLOCK CHAIN WILL BE THE WAY IT'S DONE."

"AI ALSO NEEDS PRIVACY. YOU DO NOT WANT THE LAB TO HARVEST YOUR DATA, TO TRAIN A BETTER MODEL, AND THEN SELL THE SERVICE BACK TO YOU THROUGH SUBSCRIPTION."

"AI IS A NEW COMPUTATIONAL INTERFACE, INTENDED TO BE THE COMMERCIAL LAYER BEHIND IT."

"WE STARTED IN 2017, AND THE CORE JUDGMENT WAS THAT AI WOULD BE THE WAY WE BUILD SOFTWARE AND INTERACT WITH CALCULATIONS."

Hyperliquid and Decentralised Financial Dreams

• "What's one of the killer applications in encryption?" Trading platform. Who's the richest guy in the encryption industry? Trade platform owner

• “The most important place for Hyperliquid is not the renewal of the contract or the decentrization of the trading platform itself, but rather the correctness of the token economic model.”

• “There are no venture capital agency sales, only team distributions, and almost all revenues return to token holders, which is rare in projects of this size”

AI LABOUR FORCE SUBSTITUTION AND POLITICAL RISKS

"AI'S IMPACT ON THE LABOR FORCE DEPENDS HIGHLY ON WHERE YOU LIVE. HIGH-INCOME WHITE COLLARS OFF THE COAST OF THE UNITED STATES ARE PROTECTED, WHILE WORKERS IN OVERSEAS REPROCESSING CENTRES LOSE THEIR JOBS IMMEDIATELY, WITH LITTLE CONCERN.”

– "I think the replacement has started, but it's equally unevenly distributed. The only chance is to be at the forefront, and we have always said that you need to use these technologies to enhance your abilities, learn more quickly, and apply more quickly.”

• "WHAT REALLY CAN STOP MUSIC IS NOT NECESSARILY A BIG LISTING, BUT POLITICS. PEOPLE WILL ASK: "AI, WHAT DO WE GET WHEN COMPANIES TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE KNOWLEDGE AND INTERACTION OF ALL MANKIND TO BECOME EXTREMELY RICH?"

• “IF AI IS TO BE TAXED ON PROFITS, NOT BECAUSE THESE COMPANIES CANNOT MAKE MONEY, BUT ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY 100 TIMES MORE FOR A COMPANY THAT MIGHT BE TAXED 50%? OF COURSE NOT

Arthur's Macro Investment Theory

Moderator Rob Arthur, you were careful for a while before, reminding people of the risks, and then becoming more holistic. What happened in the middle? What changed

Arthur Hayes:I wrote an article at the beginning of the year thinkingBitcoin was in advance of a credit event triggered by AI deflation。

My judgment isMonetary authorities will not print enough money before they see the financial crisis。My whole argument at the time was that NASDAQ had been more or less flat since Bitcoin's history, but Bitcoin went down with the US investment-grade debt ETF IGB, down from $126,000 to $60,000, and I thought it was a credit event。

Subsequently, on 28 February, when the United States opened fire on Iran, the war situation was completely lit and the market was made aware that it would turn into a liquidity-friendly event。FIRST, AI IS ALREADY PART OF THE NATIONAL DEFENCE. UAVS, AI-DRIVEN DRONES AND AI INTELLIGENCE SYSTEMS ARE ALREADY INVOLVED IN PART OF THE WAR OPERATIONS OF ALL WARRING PARTIES。THE GOVERNMENT WILL PRINT MONEY IN ORDER TO WIN THE WAR, AND AI WILL BE PART OF THE WAR, SO BOTH THE US AND CHINESE GOVERNMENTS WILL GO TO THE BOTTOM FOR AI CAPITAL SPENDING。

We have begun to see bank loans and equity investments flowing to chip manufacturers. At least in the United States, companies such as Intel have received support, and there are similar announcements on the direction of quantum calculations, such as a $1 billion investment in IBM-related projects. These are all part of the same theme。

On the other hand, many countries have in the past made many assumptions about food and energy supplies, suggesting that they can be supplied through disputed waters such as the Strait of Hormuz。But now that things are going to be difficult, they start to think, "Why do I have to hold these American bonds?" If I'm going to feed my population or if I don't even have aviation fuel on an island, holding the United States Treasury debt won't help me, especially if my ship can't even cross the Strait。

So..They need to build a redundant supply of all critical suppliesIn particular, food and energy; new trade relations needed to be invested; and new pipelines needed to be constructed to allow oil to bypass the Persian Gulf and flow out of places such as the United Arab Emirates. All this meansSavings in the form of United States Treasury bonds need to be sold in exchange for real goods。

The United States would not allow such sales to cause the market to collapse. It will print money to fill this hole to ensure that the market does not get out of control. So I think February 28 is a market catalyst. The United States, China and Europe will print money to finance war-time economics and AI capital spending, which eventually flows to Bitcoin, which is why Bitcoin behaves so well。

HEAVY BETS NEAR, ZEC AND HYPE

Arthur Hayes:Now we see a small amount of money that starts to rise, a few of which I hold, like NEAR, HYPE and Zcash, have been doing very well since February 28th. That's my general logic。

I didn't actually do much in the first quarter. I did some more after the war began, but, in essence, we held these assets at very good prices long ago. Now the market begins to verify why we bought them six to 12 months ago。

Moderator Andy: The whole encrypted Twitter is talking about whether the deal has become a consensus, and our side is already on the line. We've been watching the macros and watching your programmes and articles on CoinDesk. At first, the market was shaky, and then NEAR, HYPE, ZEC, all of which suddenly started to rise, so it was coming together in the consolidation phase。

The integration of a chain has begun

Moderator Andy: Illia, I would like to hear your views on market integration. This is not the first so-called bear city you've been through, and we've seen it before, but this time it feels so real, because the market itself is evolving。

The institutional configuration has entered the field and the macro-level environment is highly volatile, which has led to the introduction of an industry that is “adapted to the institutional age or out of the game”. In addition to that, the industry as a whole is becoming more mature and complex, and you need products, income, real users, and a truly sustainable and robust currency economy。

FROM THE FOUNDER'S POINT OF VIEW, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MARKET IN THE PAST SIX TO EIGHT MONTHS? WHY DOES IT CHANGE SO FAST? HOW DID THE NEAR GO THROUGH THIS PHASE

Illia Polosukhin:I think there are a few clues that are coming together, starting with one and two. I remember I gave a speech in 2019 when I saidWe will go through a full-blown explosion, then enter the integration phase, and eventually only a few projects will survive, and we are now approaching that stage。

Block space is already a very common commodity and supply is much greater than demand. The only problem in the past was that such commodities were highly irreplaceable. The NEAR bets on the chain abstraction and intent (Intents) make them interchangeable. This means that every chain, every asset, every user can really connect, without having to think about which block they are using。

The second line is fundamental return。You've been saying that for over a year, maybe even years. Now it does happen. Whether it's the market, or the institutional investors that really analyze it, the institutions I'm talking about here are not Blackrock and Fidelity, but foundations and professional investors, who are changing。

The logic of the past is disappearing: we buy an asset because there's a bunch of loosers coming in. There is now a considerable reduction in the risk bias of the diaspora。Like Arthur just saidThere is more concern about the affordability of oil and food next year than about speculation on an asset。

So the market began to ask:Which assets generate real incomeWHICH ASSETS PROVIDE THE PRODUCT WE ARE USING? IF I PLEDGE IT, CAN I GET NEW POWERS? HYPE, FOR EXAMPLE, OBTAINS LOWER HANDLING FEES AND MORE MARKET ACCESS. ZEC HAS A DIFFERENT LOGIC BUT ALSO PROVIDES PRIVACY. THE SAME IS TRUE OF THE NEAR, WHICH PROVIDES A CAPABILITY TO CROSS-CHAIN, INTENT AND CALCULATION。

These are new capabilities that market participants want. So these assets are starting to become the focus, not the kind of token that can be held, but it's hard for you to figure out exactly what it's worth before the cost switches open. I think the two lines are coming together and creating a wider environment for the current encryption market。

Arthur, why do you like Zcash

Moderator Rob: The industry is a little into reorganization. A few of the Bankless seem to have split up, and David Hoffman sold all the ETH, Merch no longer supported Solana, but bet Zcash. Arthur, Zcash, why is it so important to you? Is this the core of the encryption industry? What role does NEAR intend to play here

Arthur Hayes:Zcash's heat is certainly emerging, but I remember 2016 before Zcash's main line, it's the hottest thing on the market. I was still in BitMEX, and we went online with the first Zcash price derivative。

That market was crazy, and the price went up to about $300 on Polonix. If you remember that trading platform, there were even seven Bitcoin for one Zcash price。

That was a very crazy day. Subsequently, prices collapsed as a result of fast-growing supply as a result of block incentives. But Zcash did have problems. You have to trust Zooko, Eli, and other participants, for example, that they didn't do any harm at the key-generation ceremony. And there's the issue of the team 20% block incentive subsidy, which was also controversial in the market。

But those issues are now behind us. The protocol has been upgraded, credible settings have been removed, and we know it's secure in code, and 20 percent of the subsidy has disappeared. It now has a clean starting point and a sufficient supply to form a real market, rather than the sharp swings of the first generation。

Naval changed Arthur's opinion

Arthur Hayes:Last year, during Token 2049, I went to a dinner, and Naval was there. He started talking to me about Zcash. At that time, Zcash had gone from about $30 to about $120, and I asked him why he was looking, and he knew that I was holding a lot of Monero。

He told me that Monero's ring signature wasn't as strong as anyone thought. Japanese law enforcement agencies have been successful in decontaminating related transactions in a criminal case. After listening, I felt that this man was obviously very reliable, so I went back and bought millions of dollars in Zcash。

I also noticed one thing: I have a lot of brokers, but only two of them are willing to give me Zcash's price, because many agencies would say we don't make private currency. My reaction was:If it's hard for me to buy it, I want it more。

And then I did more research to validate some of Navar's statements. And then I keep buying, and I keep loading. Zcash got up in 2016, essentially because everyone knew Bitcoin was a pseudonym system, not completely private. Many people do value privacy in certain contexts。There's nothing wrong with having a private currency on the Internet, that's what Zcash stands for, and that's what Monero stands for。

As we get clearerGreat technology, big government, and AI have the ability to know everything about us, to track everything that's going on in our lives, and it's absolutely necessary to prove money privacy in a coded way, and that's why I made Zcash the second largest warehouse。Even if I hadn't bought it four times since it rebounded from $30, it was still very good。

And then the problem becomes the user experience。The best application used to be called another name, now Zashi, where users can use the shield Zcash. One of the biggest problems of Zcash in 2016 is that it does work, but almost no one can hold it as a shield. We're all using transparency Zcash, and that's essentially a bad version of Bitcoin. What's the point if we can't have privacy

The situation has changed. This kind of application allows you to hold the shield Zcash at an experienced mobile end, and if you match a cold wallet like Keystone, you can hold the shield Zcash with cold storage。I strongly recommend that all those who hold Zcash hold it in shield form, otherwise why do you have it

NEAR ATTEMPTED TO EXCHANGE ANONYMOUSLY

Arthur Hayes:This user experience is good, and this is the more interesting part. We invested in Zashi's round of financing. Then in Zashi applicationBy blocking Zcash and NEAR, I can anonymously send randomly encrypted assets to anyone on the Internet. For example, I started by blocking Zcash, and then turned into USDT on Tron, and sent it anonymously to each other。

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. THE NEAR PRICE, LIKE THE REST OF THE ENCRYPTION INDUSTRY, HAS FALLEN A LOT FROM HISTORICAL HEIGHTS AND HAS GONE THROUGH CYCLES. I THOUGHTZcash will be the first stop if privacy narratives become the big theme; the second stop will be the second stop where people can send value anonymously in any chain。It's also huge。

The NEAR economic model will come back, and this is a very asymmetric opportunity. Of course, I'm configured to the size of NEAR not so big as ZcashBut I think NEAR has 20 times the potential in the next year, and Zcash could be about five times。You'll put capital on different scales depending on the risks。

That's why these two assets make up meThe core of privacy investment theory: in a world where AI, big technology and big government coexist, privacy is reawakened to the market, and Maelstrom benefits from it。

Privacy is a prerequisite for mass adoption

Moderator Rob: Illia, when you look at NEAR from the perspective of capitalizers like Arthur, it is clear that AI narratives are an important theme, including supporting identity management, payment networks, and the infrastructure needed for AI intelligence. But in fact, the core of the real release of Zcash ecological values lies in intent, because it makes such currency more efficient and practical。

I have some data here: the total historical trade volume of NEAR's intentions is close to $20 billion, currently about $18.9 billion. The NEAR intent has generated $33 million in costs from these transactions, a large part of which comes from Zcash, as this is almost the only place to complete such operations. Arthur also mentioned that privacy intent creates a positive cash flow for agreements。

CAN YOU TELL ME HOW YOU'RE GOING TO DO THIS? HOW'S THE CASH FLOW? HOW DO YOU PLAN TO EXPAND THE NEAR INTENT TO BETTER SERVE THE ENTIRE NEAR ECOLOGY

Illia Polosukhin:At the heart of Arthur was that we needed a chain of privacy. I'll go even further:If we want the block chain to be truly integrated into everyday life, it cannot happen without privacy, which is actually a prerequisite for the large-scale use of encryption。

If I buy coffee at the coffee shop, I don't want the coffee shop to know how much money I have and the world to know that I just paid for it。And I don't want someone waiting for me there next time I'm going there. The recent tweets of people talking about someone's chain of credit card transactions, as everyone can see, is absurd in itself。

SoPrivacy is a prerequisite if we want encrypted, stable currency and other assets to become daily currency in real transactions。Even if it were just an investment, I would now have to prepare many addresses for each investment, one for payment, one for collection, each for isolation and management by form. This is unacceptable in a normal world。

Privacy intentIt's not just Zcash that brings in sovereignty, censorship, private assets. Zcash itself is very important and we do need it。But we also want to solve another problem: how to securely complete transfers, transactions, payments, proceeds and other operations between the more than 150 assets that we support。

PRIVACY INTENT IS ESSENTIALLY TO CREATE A PRIVATE SEGMENT ON THE NEAR. USERS HAVE ACCESS TO THIS PRIVATE SEGMENT, TRADING INTERNALLY, AND EXTERNAL ACCESS TO WHAT HAPPENS IS IMPOSSIBLE. IT DOES NOT REQUIRE USERS TO PERFORM COMPLEX PASSWORD OPERATIONS ON THE CLIENT SIDE, ALL OF WHICH ARE DONE INTERNALLY. SO IT'S LIGHT AND PROGRAMABLE. YOU CAN WRITE SMART CONTRACTS AND DEPLOY INSIDE。

This means that we can already support transactions, transfers and privacy payments. There will be more functionality in the future, which will be rolled out through partnerships and ecological integration. I'm excited because I think it's the executive level of privacy investment theory, which makes privacy really broad, accessible and accessible。

This post is part of our special coverage Global Voices 2011SalariesI don't know. No one pays for it with encryption, because everyone sees how much they get; and..InvoicesI don't knowAnd we used to say many examples of what encryption should do, and when everything is completely transparent, they don't really happen。So it's very exciting, and it's going to get us to increase the volume and number of transactions。

WE CHARGE EACH TRANSACTION AND USE THESE FEES TO BUY NEAR BACK. THIS ECONOMIC MODEL IS VERY DIRECT. OUR GOAL IS TO CONTINUE TO DO SO. AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE REDUCED INFLATION THROUGHOUT THE ECOLOGY. LAST NOVEMBER, WE ACTUALLY HALVED INFLATION. NEAR HAS BEEN COMPLETELY DILUTED, AND I WILL CONTINUE TO PUSH COMMUNITIES TO FURTHER REDUCE INFLATION. WITH INCREASING ECOLOGICAL REVENUES, WE CAN GRADUALLY BALANCE OUR BOOKS AND MAKE NEPAD DEFLATIONARY AND TRULY ECONOMICALLY SUSTAINABLE AND PROFITABLE。

Arthur Hayes:Let me add Illia。It is very important that this be completely diluted, especially when you want to discuss whether a chain of public services can really perform well in rising markets。Many layers of the public chain do all sorts of fancy things, but they have a lot of unlocked chips on top of their heads that risk investment agencies can break down at any time。

What you want is a clean top space。THE ONLY REASON NEAR HAD THIS WAS BECAUSE IT HAD BEEN IN EXISTENCE LONG ENOUGH TO COMPLETE THE CLEAN-UP PROCESS。This is a good asset, because there is an open sky ahead and no one is waiting to dump chips on top of me。

AI BLOCK CHAIN SINCE 2017 VIEW

Moderator Rob: NEAR is one of a few completely diluted tokens, especially in the L1 chain, which already has more than $30 million in cash, and is intended to be one of the main revenue drivers。

Illia, can you talk about other AI functions like NEAR AI, IronClaw, and a series of products you're making now? What's the most exciting part of the product package? How does it fit with privacy? If so, talk about the income potential of these products and how they ultimately affect the overall economic situation of the NEAR。

Illia Polosukhin:High-level logic is:IN THE FUTURE, WE'LL USE THE AL TO CALCULATE, AND THE BLOCK CHAIN WILL BECOME ALL THE WAY TO BE EXECUTED. SO WE DO BOTH AT THE SAME TIME, AND WE REALLY CONNECT THEM。

AI ALSO NEEDS PRIVACY. YOU DON'T WANT THE LAB TO HARVEST YOUR DATA, USE IT TO TRAIN BETTER MODELS, AND SELL THE SERVICES TO YOU THROUGH SUBSCRIPTIONS。You want to give the model more context and access, but it's dangerous if it runs in the hands of a third party and you don't know how the other party will use it. For example, if you give access to encrypted accounts or bank accounts, the other party might collect the data and even start a transaction on your behalf, without you knowing it。

WHAT WE DO ON THE SIDE OF AI IS CREATE A SMART BODY EXPERIENCE WITH PRIVACY AND SECURITY AT ITS CORE. IT'S ESSENTIALLY AN EXECUTIVE ARM, AND TODAY YOU MAKE YOUR OWN PAYMENTS, AND MUCH, IF NOT ALL, OF THE FUTURE WILL BE DONE BY YOUR SMART BODY。As long as you trust it and give it enough context, it can help you with a series of operations ranging from daily shopping to building a spot on Hyperliquid, to super-predicting the market。

For example, I'd like to build a space, and I think something will happen tomorrow, so help me put together the right strategy. It's going to find the right asset, the right combination, and help you build the space. If you're gonna do it manually today, it's gonna be a lot of trouble。

IronClaw has an example now. You can enter your own encrypted address, which will analyze all your assets and slots and suggest a better chance of yielding, telling you how to reconfigure between different agreements, which could be significantly expanded in the future。

So the two parts work together。AI IS THE NEW COMPUTING INTERFACE, INTENDED TO BE THE COMMERCIAL LAYER BEHIND IT。IT IS USED NOT ONLY FOR ORDINARY PAYMENTS, BUT ALSO FOR SUPPLY CHAINS, COMMODITIES AND BROADER TRANSACTIONS. ALL OF THIS WILL FLOW THROUGH INTENT, AS AI FINDS, NEGOTIATES AND COMPLETES TRANSACTIONS MUCH BETTER THAN THE TRADITIONAL MAIL, INVOICE AND BILLING SYSTEMS。

We have a very specific exampleIt's called Smart MarketI don't know. Smarts can hire other intelligents to perform work or deliver goods. This is a glimpse of the future, which, although early, is already being used by businesses in the real world. For example, you can hire a smart person to buy parts for the supply chain, or a smart person to build a marketing website, build applications, or write investment papers。

These smarts run on our verifiable calculations. You know what it's doing to check what happened. It operates on our security infrastructure, so you can give it access to contacts or internal information. One reason we used to hire people into the company was to give them access。

Historically, however, it has been difficult to delegate competence to third parties. Now, if a smart body operates in a verifiable, secure computing environment, you can get it to access information in the company。

What I'm describing is actually changing the way labour and supply chains work. So the market that we are aiming at here is the total serviceable market for all labour and supply chains, so that they all operate with intent。

Moderator Andy: The intersection between AI and intent can be seen: smart bodies transfer value with intent, and users want to use Zcash or transfer value with privacy intent. Some people may say that the direction of the NEAR is scattered, but from the beginning, you seem to have this main line early。

Illia Polosukhin:Yeah。WHEN WE STARTED IN 2017, THE CORE JUDGMENT WAS THAT AI WOULD BE THE WAY WE BUILD SOFTWARE AND INTERACT WITH CALCULATIONS。That was 2017. Then we realized that we needed a block chain if this was to really happen. So in 2018 we started focusing on NEAR Protocol. These parts were part of the NEAR gene from the beginning。

Hyperliquid fulfilled DeFi's dream

Moderator Andy Arthur, I think you want to hear about Hyperliquid. Now the HYPE price has reached about 61 dollars, and Zcash and NEAR represent privacy transactions that are very different from Hyperliquid's logic, but they are part of the same puzzle。

Privacy is very important and is a central part of the industry, which gives people freedom, but in today ' s world, especially in the field of money, privacy is seriously underestimated. On the other hand, Hyperliquid is a DeFi and a decentralised trading platform that has the potential to go beyond centralized finance. Many people have forgotten that we have entered the industry in a way to replace traditional finance, at least as a real alternative system。

In the past, this dream was consumed by such things as highly and completely diluted valuation, low circulation, fraudulent projects, infrastructure narratives, etc. But Hyperliquid is like a brilliant project to make this dream come true again. Although these two investment theories are very different, they attract many of the same people. What do you think, Hyperliquid? Where does it go? Why do you think so

Arthur Hayes: What is one of the killer applications in the encryption industry? Trading platform. Who's the richest guy in the encryption industry。BNB IS STILL A FOURTH OR FIFTH-LARGEST ENCRYPTED ASSET, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY AN ENCRYPTED CURRENCY, IT'S A CZ SERVER AND A CHAIN HE STARTED。

We know how to make money in the encryption industry. It's just that many people like to complicate things like infrastructure, real world assets, etc。It's clear that the trading platform is making money。The ultimate goal of the trading platform is that we have the Internet, we have block chains, so that anyone anywhere can trade anything, plus some leverage, to make things more interesting。

I myself have been in the central trading platform industry, and I have always known that the industry will move towards a decentralised trading platform. The first representative was dYdX, the first star project in a decentralised trading platform, which performed very well between 2020 and 2021. But it was later diverted. DYdX actually wants to do something like Hyperliquid, just that Hyperliquid works better, and dYdX's token economic model has problems。

After that, GMX appeared in the 2023 depression. It's a good model, but there's room for improvement in the currency economy, the number of assets listed, and then Jeff and his team. They come from a high-frequency trading background, are excellent engineers and do deliver good codes。

But the most important thing about them is that they have fixed the token economic model. The contract for eternity is not new, we created it in 2016. It's not new to go to centralised trading platforms, but it's already there in 2018, 2020 or soThe key is to get the currency economy model right。

Hyperliquid has no venture capital agency sales, only team distribution, and almost all revenue is returned to the token holders。NO OTHER PROJECT CAN DO THIS ON THE SCALE OF INCOME GENERATED BY HYPE. THAT'S WHY IT'S SO SUCCESSFUL AND WHY PEOPLE ARE DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THIS ECOLOGY。

When they launch the HIP-3, which allows users to market without permission, people can trade in assets such as NASDAQ, Standard, Oil, etc. Last December and January, these were small markets. But because politicians prefer to cause trouble on weekends, traditional markets do not find prices, so they can get a three-day window of opinion. Now Hyperliquid is the only place where prices are found on weekends, and it is sufficiently liquid and everybody can trade。

This is not an important price signal that can only be traded by a person with an account with an American voucher。

Now the traditional financial media also started writing about Hyperliquid because they have nowhere else to go. If they can go to CME on Saturday to talk about oil futures, they will go and completely ignore Hyperliquid. But they can't. So they can't ignore Hyperliquid because it's the only place to trade. All have access to data and all have access to trade。

This brings with it the wheel effect. More and more people know Hyperliquid and understand that income will return to you as a token holderIf you pledge enough HYPE, you can get a discount on the fees; you can take part in listing your own market in Hyperliquid, and it starts to become a self-fulfilling prophecy。

I believe that it has surpassed its historic height and will be much higher. Because it is the market that is the easiest to access, it is the volume of transactions on a centralized trading platform. Hyperliquid may be only 7 to 8 percent of them now, and will only continue to grow in the future, because it has more assets on the market, more leverage and easier to use。

Even if Hyperliquid just takes 10 to 15 per cent of Binance's lasting contract transaction, it'll be much higher than it is now. It doesn't need to recreate anything. It just needs to capture the existing traders. These individuals already hold stable currency or other encrypted assets and are trading on a centralized trading platform and paying substantial fees. They want different experiences, and they want a real part of the trading platform。

AI LABOUR ALTERNATIVE INVESTMENT DOCTRINE

Moderator Rob: Illia, you're referring to all human labour as a always-serving market. In order to give the audience a more intuitive understanding of the concept, the global total of wages and emoluments is approximately $11.7 trillion per year. At the same time, we see that AI Ages is becoming an important part of the labour market。

Arthur, in your AI alternative labour investment theory, it's also mentioned that this could cause consumer credit to collapse. There may be a bumpy road in the middle, but eventually there will be mass printing

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