Interview with the President of the ETA Community Foundation: downsizing, separation and siloing, what is ETA experiencing

The EF Is Shrinking?

Source: Unchained

Original language: Deep tide TechFlow

Edit Guidance

It is not just the EF’s “downsized” or top-level departure from the EF, but the ETH as an asset, the EF as a public infrastructure and the focal point。

Zak Cole (President of the ETA Community Foundation) and Greg Markou (Co-founder of Sprinter and Co-founder of CEOs and ChainSafe) have both long been built within the ETA ecology, a representative of the more radical ETH Asset Values, and a representative of engineering and infrastructure perspectives

Their differences also coincided with the bottom-up tension of the dialogue, and it was important to continue to be a value-driven code punk network, or to recognize prices, governance, ecological cooperation and competition like mature companies。

The most valuable part of this dialogue is that it places in the same thread a new billion-dollar organization proposed by Vitalik for “EF will be a smeller ship”, CROPS values (resistance, open source, privacy and security), senior staff departures, David Hoffman's silo ETH, Dankrad Feist, and Solana, Tron, Hyperliquid's diversion of income from the chain。

Expensive Notes

It's not an early start-up project anymore

• “Etherleaf is no longer an entrepreneurial project, but a mature and vast ecology, with billions or even trillions of dollars behind it, on which many people depend for their careers and livelihoods.”

.. "EF says it's not the center, but if there's a controversial fork, Circle and Tether probably follow the chain that EF chooses; real results make EF the center of reality."

• "RECOGNIZE THAT IT IS NO SHAME TO BE RESPONSIBLE." INSTEAD, I WANT EF TO TRULY TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND DIVERSIFY THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS TO THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND THE PRODUCT, THE COMPANY, THE MARKET AND THE DISSEMINATION.”

• “An organization can be professional, clear and scalable while still upholding the principles of censorship, openness, privacy and security”

Prices are not noise, but part of safety

• “The value of ETH is part of cybersecurity after the shift to POS; the lower the price of ETH, the lower the safety of the network.”

• "YOU CAN'T BUILD AN ECONOMIC SYSTEM FIRST, AND THEN 10 YEARS LATER, PERHAPS ECONOMICS IS IMPORTANT. THE ETH CURRENCY PREMIUM ITSELF IS A MECHANISM FOR ATTRACTING USERS, CREATING SECURITY AND GENERATING VALUE”

"If there's a scoreboard on the field, it means you're on a game where you care about points. A team should go back to the playground if it doesn't care to win."

• “EF IS NOT UNABLE TO UPHOLD CROPS VALUES; THE PROBLEM IS THAT IT DOES NOT USE ETH AND ETH PRICES AS A TOOL TO ADVANCE THESE PRINCIPLES.”

The real problem is not separation, but who's making the decision

• “It is not surprising that there is movement of people in mature organizations unless they begin to move collectively to other ecology; most of them still remain in the ETA

• “Bastian may be a great man, but for a man in the center of the Ether factory, the outside world hardly knows who he is or why he can make these big decisions.”

• "IF THE IMPORTANT EMPLOYEES OF THE EF ARE IN CHARGE OF LARGE-SCALE PROJECTS, BUT EVEN THOSE WHO ARE DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THE ECOLOGY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, IT'S ALSO THE FAILURE OF THE EF TO MAKE THINGS CLEAR."

Etherum is not facing the next round of ETH Killer noise

• “THERE HAVE BEEN SO-CALLED ETH KILLERS IN EVERY ROUND, BUT MANY ARE ONLY AIR PRODUCTS; THE PROBLEM NOW IS THAT SOMEONE HAS FINALLY BUILT A CAR THAT LOOKS COOLER AND FASTER.”

• “EF cannot be completely unaware that competitors like Solana, Tron, Hyperliquid are stealing income and users, but many may not really care.”

• "CROPS MAY WIN IN THE LONG RUN, BUT NOT IN THE SHORT TERM. THE PROBLEM IS THAT IF THE SHORT-TERM LOSES, THE CHANCES OF WINNING CAN ALSO BE LOST IN THE LONG TERM.”

Small foundations can be set up, but the board can't be like a family business anymore

• “EF CAN CONTINUE TO BE SMALL AND FOCUSED ON RESEARCH, BUT IT MUST LEAVE MUCH OF ITS IMPLEMENTATION TO OUTSIDE ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE BETTER EQUIPPED.”

• “The board should not become an internal promotion and acquaintance system, but should include outsiders from different fields such as DeFi, open source, institutions, products and dissemination.”

• “In order for the Ether Workshop to increase its good-luck exposure, it takes a lot of factors and luck to win, and expanding the reach itself increases the chances of success.”

The recent unrest in the Etherwood community

Laura Shin:Over the past week, the ETA community has been destabilized by the departure of several members of the Foundation, in particular by the departure of some senior members. Meanwhile, the co-moderator of Bankless, David Hoffman, announced the sale of his last ETH. Now the ETH price is about $2,100, and last summer and fall were close to $5,000。

On Sunday, Vitalik added that "EF will be a smeller ship", that is, EF will become a smaller ship, and re-emphasizes that the values of Ethiopia's CROPS are its guiding principles. The CROPS refers to security and privacy。

The community has been concerned that the Ether Workshop is losing to other chains. In 2025, when Tomasz Stańczak was appointed as Director of the EF Joint Implementation Board, this concern was mitigated, but he left after 11 months in office. Now the community feels that Vitalik and EF are back to old patterns, which have caused the community a lot of anxiety. Before entering into the details of each incident, I would like to hear your overall view of the wave. Zak, you go first。

Zak Cole:I'VE PLAYED THIS DRUM FOR A LONG TIME, AND I'VE REPEATEDLY CRITICIZED THE BEHAVIOUR OF THE EF AND ITS ATTITUDE TO THE WIDER ECOLOGY. I THINK THEY DID TAKE A FEW STEPS IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, BUT NOW IT'S LIKE A FEW STEPS BACK. BUT ON THE WHOLE, THE MOOD FOR THE EF IS BASICALLY DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE ETH PRICE. IF ETH IS STILL AT $5,000, I DON'T THINK SO MANY PEOPLE WOULD COMPLAIN ABOUT WHAT EF DID OR DIDN'T DO。

SO I DON'T WANT TO BE TOO HARD ON THE EF. A LOT OF EMOTIONS COME FROM PRICE PERFORMANCE, AND IT'S NOT ENTIRELY UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE EF. OF COURSE, I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE EF DOESN'T CONSIDER PRICES, OR THAT THEY SHOULDN'T BE CONSIDERED PART OF NETWORK SECURITY. I JUST THOUGHT THAT A LARGE PART OF THIS COULD BE BEAR-MARKET EMOTIONS。

Laura Shin:Greg, what do you think

Greg Markou:I also think Bear City and current prices are bound to affect the mood. But I'd also like to say that since Tomasz entered the EF, the EF has really grown a lot. Danny Ryan was also seen as a potential leader at the time, and there were many upheavals within the foundation and within the community. Tomasz at least tried to readjust the EF should focus on the direction。

NOW THAT HE'S GONE AND OTHERS ARE GONE, IT'S COMPLICATED. A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WHO LEFT HAVE BEEN IN THE EF FOR FOUR, FIVE, SIX YEARS, AND THEY'RE PROBABLY JUST SUPPOSED TO TAKE A BREAK, SWITCH DIRECTIONS, OR PURSUE SOMETHING ELSE. IN GENERAL, EF HAS DONE A LOT OF MATURE MOVES, CUT OFF SOME OF THE COMMUNITY ' S LONG COMPLAINTS AND INCREASED TRANSPARENCY. AS FOR THE RECENT NEWS SURROUNDING CROPS, I THINK THERE'S SOME REASON。

After Tomasz left, however, the situation did change somewhat to the present situation. Overall, I still feel that things are going in a positive direction. Vitalik even changed my mind a little。

Laura Shin:What do you mean

Greg Markou:I AM REFERRING TO THE FACT THAT EF IS BEGINNING TO REALIZE THAT IT NEEDS TO MATURE, THAT IT IS AWARE OF WHERE PRIORITIES SHOULD BE AND THAT IN SOME AREAS IT MUST RELY ON OTHER TEAMS TO HOLD POSITIONS。

Zak Cole:My concern is that we have heard that before. They let Tomasz try it once, but it didn't work. And now it looks like they want to go back to what they know: endlessly talking about endless gardens, funding long-lived research, doing a bunch of things nobody cares about except Vitalik and his little circle. I'm telling you, EF is completely out of line。

I can, of course, say after I criticize them, at least they admit that other organizations must come forward. The question, however, is whether they are really willing to give power to a more capable and resilient organization. It is not an entrepreneurial project, but a mature and resilient ecology. You can no longer be as persistent as you were six years ago and ten years ago. There are billions, if not trillions of dollars, of benefits on which many depend for their livelihood. My whole career is at the Ether's. What do I do if it's a problem

Laura Shin:YOU'VE ALL JUST MENTIONED THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE RECENTLY LEFT THE EF ARE SENIOR MEMBERS AND ARE WELL KNOWN IN THE COMMUNITY. THIS DOES NOT SEEM TO ME OPTIMISTIC, BUT RATHER WORRYING. BUT YOU DON'T SOUND SO WORRIED. WHAT DO YOU THINK? IT SEEMS TO ME THAT MANY OF THEM ARE REAL ETHERMEN。

Zak Cole:I don't think it's particularly worrying. There will be mobility in mature organizations, who have also been waiting for a long time。

Laura Shin:Even if they all happened after Tomasz left? In almost three months

Zak Cole:I'm not saying it's optimistic. I'm just saying this could be a sign of ecological maturity. Or maybe it's not EF in maturity, it's EF in reverse from Tomasz. I don't know. Anyway, the ecology itself is growing。

IF THESE PEOPLE DON'T FIT IN WITH THE EF, THEN THEY LEAVE AND START DOING THEIR OWN THING, MAYBE BETTER. I AM CONFIDENT THAT THEY WILL CONTINUE TO WORK IN THE ETHERA ECOLOGY, AT LEAST I HOPE SO. IT IS DIFFICULT TO JUDGE THE LONG-TERM RESULTS NOW, BECAUSE I DID NOT TALK TO THEM OR KNOW WHAT THEY THINK。

Laura Shin:I did not just name Tim Beiko, Barnabé Monnot, Josh Stark, Trent Van Epps, Carl Beekhuizen, Julian Mauduit, etc。

Zak Cole:THEY ARE WELL KNOWN. BUT I AM NOT DISRESPECTING THEIR PAST CONTRIBUTIONS. I JUST WANT TO ASK, WHAT HAVE THEY DONE RECENTLY? WHAT HAVE THEY RECENTLY CONTRIBUTED TO THE EF AND THE WIDER ECOLOGY

Laura Shin:Maybe they don't have to sign every job. Are you saying you don't think they're that important

Zak Cole:I'M NOT SAYING THEY DON'T MATTER. I JUST FEEL LIKE THEY'RE GETTING A "LIFE JOB" IN A WAY, AND THEY'RE STARTING TO BE INTERESTED IN SOMETHING. IF THEY'RE REALLY IN CHARGE OF BIG THINGS AND BIG PROJECTS, IT'S PROBABLY AN EF FAILURE, AND IT DOESN'T TELL THE OUTSIDE WORLD WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE LEADING。

PERSONALLY, I DON'T KNOW WHAT EF IS DOING, WHAT EVERY EMPLOYEE IS DOING, OR WHAT THE BOARD IS DOING。

All I know is what Vitalik said, basically that. As a person deeply involved in ecology, if I don't know what they're doing, apart from Trent being a Protocol Guild, it means that the EF has failed to demonstrate and explain its work。

Laura Shin:Greg, what do you think

Greg Markou:This is not optimism, but I am not yet worried. Unless we see these people beginning to flow on a large scale to other ecology。

My instinct is, it's not like Max Resnick's very high-profile departure from the Ether House to the Solana camp. According to what I hear, most people will continue to work in the Ether House, just not inside the EF. It's more like a healthy flow. It is only when one organization is caught in a negative cycle, and everyone is excavated by other ecology that there is a real need for vigilance。

If they start building in Solana, we should be worried. Last year Peter Szilagyi's departure was another example. His output has been declining gradually over six to twelve months, with a possible one or two PRs per month and then leaving naturally. Of course I may underestimate his contribution, but it's more like natural flow. And the group hasn't shown up like he did。

Laura Shin:What about Tomasz leaving? He came in 11 months ago and was a response to community demands for change and dissatisfaction. He was popular, and his praise was everywhere on the timeline. He was very open and would talk to as many builders as possible, so he left so quickly as shockingly. Community perception means that the EF is going back to a state of silence. Why do you think that happened

Zak Cole:I think that the EF succumbed to community pressure and put Tomasz in that position, but it didn't really want to give up control. He is still only a joint executive, co-organised with Hsiao-Wei Wang, so he is not in full freedom to implement real organizational change. When he tried to push these changes, I thought he was being pushed out because he didn't fit the EF's infinite garden culture。

After he left, they replaced him with a mystery figure, Bastian Aue, who was hardly known to anyone, nor seen. And then the EF released a so-called mandate, visual style, something like DevantArt。

IT COULD HAVE BEEN A CLEAR BLOG EXPLAINING THE CROPS PRINCIPLES, BUT THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN A DOCUMENT LIKE A CARTOON MANIFESTO. THAT MAKES ME VERY PESSIMISTIC. I DON'T WANT THIS COMING FROM AN ORGANIZATION THAT HAS A FINANCIAL FUTURE FOR MY CHILDREN。

Laura Shin:We should put it on the screen for the audience. We were just laughing at the document. It does have a special aesthetic, and the choice of font is strange。

Zak Cole:I'm telling you, Tomasz won't release this stuff. Greg, I know you want to stay calm, but it's hard for you to look at this document and say that it's good for the financial future, and the agency will put the money in. And they said, "If it fails, may EF kill himself with a sword." The strangeness of design is one thing, and the writing itself is also out of step。

Laura Shin:You're talking about that little comic at the bottom of the 11th page, right? It's crazy。

Let's jump to Vitalik's Sunday post because one of the things I care about. He said Bastian is leading the EF in this transition. Do you think this authorization came from Bastian or Vitalik? Or isn't it important

Zak Cole:EF has a board, Vitalik has most influence on the board. Whatever he says, if you look at the organization of the company, Vitalik is at the top and he has the legal right to do what he wants。

He could say that it was decentralised or that someone else was leading it, but not in practice. EF is essentially Vitalik's microphone. Whether they admit it or not, Vitalik is in control of the EF, without his approval, none of this will happen。

Laura Shin:Greg, do you agree

Greg Markou:Basic agreement. From this point of view, this is no different from the kind of "shadow government" controversy that was within EF 10 years ago, but it is now more transparent and more visible. This file cannot be without the consent of Vitalik and Bastian。

What's worrying is, as Zak said, it does look weird. Ideas can certainly be, but it might be helpful if you were trying to get prices and trust the outside world, especially at the level of authorization, to learn a little bit about McKinsey's expression would not hurt you. This is not a summer camp or an art school。

Laura Shin:Back to separations, do you think these recent departures are related to Tomasz' non-membership of the Joint Implementation Board

Zak Cole:I think Tomasz's departure made it clear that some people in the EF are not really going to deliver on their promises to the community. That's more like empty words. If they really intend to deliver, we will see action, not just words。

If Vitalik doesn't want to give up control over the EF, or control over the ecology, or concentrate power on the EF, then let's be honest. Then open the board. Why not appoint someone from DeFi, different agreements, institutional backgrounds? They should be public figures, with curricula vitae, and communities can be held accountable, not a mysterious person whose names we have to spell on the Internet。

If there's a bunch of weird stuff on the Internet, I'll tell you, it's not me, it's another one that's out of control. But now we hear nothing, we don't know who these people are and we don't know who is making the major decisions that affect the entire ecological existence and health。

Laura Shin:Greg, would you like to add something

Greg Markou:I remember Tomasz is a two-year term, renewable every year. When I saw him leave, it became clear that this was not going to work. Of course you can say that at the time, AI was very hot and he might want to do something else. But if you really want a big organization to change, at least two years, big organizations won't be quick。

And then back to the "shadow government" issue of EF. There must be someone inside who knows who Bastian is and who he may be. However, when he was in the centre of the Ethera, and when major decisions were taken, such as budget cutting, project cutting, externalization of promoters and teams, there was little information on his background. Why didn't he go? Why am I here with Zak? Why can't you just interview Bastian

Laura Shin:I tried to figure out who he was. I found a picture of Bastian Aue online and asked EF if that was him, and they said no. I also got some description from someone who knew him to make sure it wasn't him。

That's what I said in my post. EF PR is angry about it. Bastian and Tomasz are in sharp contrast. Tomasz communicates outside, you can see him, he has a sense of presence in X, he interacts online。

He gives people confidence because they can see what he's doing. Bastian has little history and no public information, except for that weird website that we can't confirm belongs to. After his appointment as interim Joint Implementation Director, there was little push; and EF did not explain how the next Executive Director was looking for, what the process was and what the next step was, but simply that he was on hold。

Greg Markou:IT'S ACTUALLY AN EF RECURRING PATTERN. FOR A LONG TIME, EF AS A WHOLE HARDLY SPOKE TO PEOPLE. I KNOW SOME OF THE L2 TEAMS USED TO BE UPSET BECAUSE FROM MARKETING TO OTHER THINGS, THEY NEVER REALLY TALKED TO THE EF ORGANIZATIONAL LEVEL. FELLOWS MAY TALK SPORADICALLY, BUT THE ORGANIZATION ITSELF DOES NOT COMMUNICATE。

Tomasz tried to change that. It was only recently that Charles and Yvonne, people like this, started really paying attention to DeFi, went out to work. But it took 10 years. DeFi TVL is already low, a little too late。

The same repetition now occurs. The new arrivals may be good, but no one has heard of him, met him, understood him, and he is cutting the budget and tearing the team apart. This is indeed worrying。

Laura Shin:We return to the authorization document. There are rumours that at that time EF employees were required to sign a commitment to the CROPS principle or else they would be expelled from the foundation. Do you think this is from Bastian or Vitalik? What do you think of this

Greg Markou:I THINK IT'S JUST A SCAPEGOAT. AS AN OPERATOR, IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF. EF HAS NOT EFFECTIVELY DISMISSED INAPPROPRIATE PERSONS FOR YEARS AND HAS NOT HELD TEAMS ACCOUNTABLE. OF COURSE, IT HAS GOOD PROJECT MANAGERS AND ENGINEERS, BUT IN THE PAST, THERE WAS OFTEN A TEAM DOING THINGS WITH A $20 MILLION BUDGET WITHOUT ACCOUNTABILITY AT THE ENGINEERING MANAGEMENT LEVEL。

I've argued with Tomasz before that there should be an engineering manager, and they're bound by real standards, which may not be public, but the budget cannot run like this. So the so-called promise of loyalty is like what they use to clean up people who don't fit the cultural template, and at the same time use it as a pretext for a round of abolition。

Zak Cole:It makes me feel like they want both. They want everything, but they are not willing to take an extra step to ensure that these principles are truly implemented。

Laura Shin:What you mean is that it is an indirect way to get staff to sign a promise of loyalty, not to talk directly to them about their mission and confirm their agreement

Zak Cole:Right. And then they use this to clean people up, like Greg said。

David Hoffman sells ETH effects

Laura Shin:Next is another incident last week. While the community was still discussing these departures, David Hoffman of Banks announced the sale of his last ETH. It's a shock, because Banks was a podcast on a very Taifeng route from day one。

His co-moderator, Ryan Sean Adams, still believes in Ethera, but David won't be on the show so often. What did you hear about this

Zak Cole:I don't think it's news. In my opinion, David has been doing his thing for years. Bankless is essentially an entrepreneur, a business person who does what is best for their bottom line, which is not necessarily the best for the Ether. They have business incubators and venture capital funds, so they have their own fiduciary responsibilities。

David has done some pessimism over the past few years, which is not new. He now says he sold ETH, which may be a little more concerned, because he has shaped himself into some sort of villain in the wider Etherwood ecology. I wouldn't sell ETH because David sold ETH, which was stupid. People have been buying and selling, but I won't push it。

Laura Shin:But his whole identity was tied up with Etherum。

Zak Cole:I haven't seen David as an Etherwood believer in three or four years. I see him as someone who moves in the market to make money, that's fine. If that's who he wants to be, that's fine. At least he didn't sell the place in secret and shout too much publicly。

Laura Shin:Greg, what do you think

Greg Markou:I DON'T CARE. BUT WHEN A PERSON HAS SO MUCH INFLUENCE AND BUILDS A BRAND ON ETH, IT DOES REFLECT A BIT OF PERSONALITY. IT ALSO BRINGS IN THE NUMBER OF HITS, WHICH I BASICALLY SEE。

Zak Cole:And one thing is worth noting: EF and Vitalik always say they don't want to be kingmakers, but they are directly involved in creating David Hoffman's influence. They gave him a spotlight and a microphone. Five or six years ago, Vitalik supported him and made Banks a de facto Etherum podcast。

Before that, he was just a small podcast host. Vitalik gives people microphones and attention, and is the king of creation. This contradicts what they say now。

Laura Shin:The day after the announcement, Dankrad Feist made a proposal. He used to do research in the EF and left for Tempo last fall. In his tweets, he said that if Etheleum were to win again, first, to create an organization with credible funds, starting with at least $1 billion; secondly, to find a leader who is capable and willing to fight; thirdly, to hold the organization accountable with a board of directors and by-laws that hope for ETH to rise; and fourthly, to fund it permanently with a large amount of staking revenue。

I think it's interesting that the EF could be guided by the CROPS principle and also do what Dankrad mentioned. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. But now EF works like they want to do CROPS, but they don't want to fight for it, they just want to stay in the ivory tower, and they believe that "people will come when they've built them." What do you think of this proposal

Zak Cole:The biggest problem is funding. Give an organization a billion dollars to make it great again, of course. But the more fundamental problem is that EF does not recognize prices as a key driver of ecology or as one of the fundamental pillars of cybersecurity. After moving to POS, the value of ETH is the value of the network, equal to the safety base of the network as a whole。

SO THE POINT IS NOT TO GIVE PEOPLE A BILLION DOLLARS, BUT TO GO BACK TO BASICS: WHAT DO WE DO? I THINK WE NEED TO FOCUS ON ETH AS A CYBER ASSET, AND WE NEED TO MOVE VALUE TO ETH. MANY OF THE VALUES IN THE PAST HAVE BEEN EATEN BY POOR STRATEGIC DECISIONS, SUCH AS PUSHING A LOT OF THINGS TO L2, OR MAKING AGREED DECISIONS WITHOUT CONSIDERING THE ECONOMIC NATURE OF NETWORKS AND AGREEMENTS。

THIS IS A GREAT INJURY TO BOTH ETH AND ETH HOLDERS, WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN TREATED LIKE TRUSTEES。

Greg Markou:EF has historically been a very strong academic researcher, with the exception of a few core teams, but the concept of applied research is not prominent. For non-technical audiences, applied research means more product sense, you know what an ideal state is, and you know what to do to get there, and you design a realistic path。

HISTORICALLY, EVEN TODAY, THE APPLICATION SIDE AND THE ACTUAL ENGINEERING SIDE WERE MOSTLY OUTSOURCED TO EXTERNAL TEAMS. THAT'S WHY THERE ARE CONSENSUS CLIENT TEAMS AND EF FUNDING FOR OUTSIDE PARTIES. MANY ISSUES ALSO RELATE TO IMPLEMENTATION AND LEADERSHIP。

EF is not an organization that is good at holding people accountable and promoting product construction. Even internal teams are very autonomous. A well-functioning team like Gert gets the money, listens to what the research team wants, and sometimes loses some proposals at the core developer level。

It is worth noting that as many people leave, some teams are also forced to spin out, even though they receive regular funding, but may not continue in the future. My understanding is that it's an EF that admits that he's not good at doing something. Like a start-up company that's not good at making products, but good at doing X, it should focus on X。

Views on Vitalik's new post

Laura Shin:Now talk about Vitalik's Sunday post. First half. He stressed that it was only his own point of view and that the Foundation had other people and board members; but, as everyone was aware, Vitalik was probably speaking in direction. He mentioned that Bastian was implementing the EF transition。

He then said that Google had started with the idea of “no evil”, but that large companies were now inclined towards the greed of financial interests, the acceleration of the vision of super-intellectual conglomeration, the penetration of socially ill people, and the submission and even active involvement of Governments in ideological control, surveillance and war pressure。

He said that this affected his vision of EF: EF should not be at the centre of Etherum, but should be one of many nodes with a clear purpose. EF has limited financial resources, holding only about 0.16 per cent of all ETH, and thus concentrates its resources on long-term rather than broadness。

Considering that ETH has fallen by more than half since last fall, it's really about money, because the budget has shrunk. In conclusion, he said that Etheleum must be convincing and defined as the absence of bugs, the availability of chain consensus and the minimization of intermediaries. What do you think

Greg Markou:You won't let the senior leadership leave because of budget constraints. Teams such as Solidity (in the main programming language of the Taifung smart contract) often complain that it might be the budget. I wouldn't blame Tim and others for budget cuts, which I think are more systematic。

Zak Cole:Many of these people have spent 10 years in the Ether factory. They were the people we were doing when we first started doing those things. We believed in the same thing at the time, which inspired us to build. I haven't taken much money for a long time, but it's hard, but I do ETH, I do a lot of things because I believe in it. That's why early Etherum was great。

NOW PUT CROPS AT THE CENTRE, I DON'T OBJECT. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FAITH ITSELF. THE PROBLEM IS HOW THEY RUN THE ORGANIZATION. YOU CAN'T RUN THE PRESENT THE WAY YOU USED TO. EF HAS BECOME AN INFLUENTIAL GIANT, AND THE MORE SO, THE MORE AFRAID IT IS TO BE TAKEN IN THE DIRECTION IT SHOULD BE, BECAUSE THERE ARE TOO MANY MOVING PARTS AND MORE STUFF ON IT。

Laura Shin:The second half of the post makes me frown. Vitalik states that, from a financial point of view, the product with the highest value of the Etheum block chain is this asset. The founder of the Ether Workshop said that the most valuable product of the block chain was ETH, which became news because he was usually reluctant to talk about prices。

He then said that supporting ETH assets had some necessary work outside the EF, so other heroes were needed, some of them holding more ETH than EF. I read this as an implicit endorsement of the Dankrad idea. What do you think of his description of ETH assets

Zak Cole:Finally. ETH is valuable and unique to the network. Isn't that bullshit? That was five years ago. The importance of ETH is that it is the foundation of the POS. If ETH values are low, safety is low. You can't build an economic engine, and then 10 years later, perhaps economics is important。

I would not continue to attack him because he said what everyone thought, but it was not news. We need to focus on ETH as a network of money premiums. It creates value, attracts new users and creates security. Cyber security depends entirely on the value of ETH, which is the innovation of block chains and encryption。

That's why he said that now. It's weird。

Greg Markou:It's like his Wolf on Wall Street, just a little late. But it also corresponds to the changes that are taking place. They hired the DeFi chief, which is good, just very late. DeFi Summer is six years old。

I got married, I had kids, I raised them, I had white hair. Of course it's good to happen, just late. But maybe they're turning around, and there are serious competitors。

ENCRYPTION ECONOMICS AND COMPETITION IN ETH

Laura Shin:That brings me to my next topic. I say, ETH's cryptoeconomics is a little broken. Many people think Etherum is valuable, and many are willing to fight for Vitalik's ideas, CROPS principles and these things. I think many people really agree with these principles。

But the problem is that Vitalik and EF are not using ETH properly. ETH could have been a powerful tool for advancing CROPS principles: to get people interested in ETH first, through eco-cooperative and encrypted economics, then to bring them like Trojan horses。

BECAUSE ORDINARY PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW HOW IMPORTANT THESE PRINCIPLES ARE. I DO NOT THINK IT WOULD BE TOO EFFECTIVE TO JUST SAY THAT I WANT TO ADHERE TO THOSE PRINCIPLES AND THEN PRAY THAT PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED. DO YOU AGREE THAT ETH'S ENCRYPTION ECONOMY IS BROKEN? DOES EF PLAY A KEY ROLE IN DEVELOPING THESE ECONOMICS

Zak Cole:100%, no doubt。

Greg Markou:IF YOU TRY TO CHANGE THE CURRENT DISTRIBUTION CURVE, I PROMISE THAT THE ENTIRE R&D TEAM WILL COME UP AND SAY NO。

Laura Shin:what do you mean, "missions curve"

Greg Markou:Right. If you touch economics, they'll be all involved. It's been three or four years since Haseeb/Hasu's podcasts talked about changing the curve, but we haven't changed it. Now there's an EIP that proposes to cut distribution by essentially half, but it's gonna be a controversial EIP。

Zak Cole:The risk-free return on this matter is not worth it。

Laura Shin:David Hoffman said the same thing. I also pushed, saying that Etheleum wasn't interested in scoring on the scoreboard, and that's basically why he left。

Zak Cole:It should be interested. If there's a scoreboard on the field, it means you're in a game where you care about points. If your team doesn't care about winning, go back to the playground。

Laura Shin:This raises the next question: the age of competition. Frank Chaparro argued this morning that the dominance of Etherum was declining, that ETH had fallen by about 30 per cent since the beginning of the year, that ETH/BTC ratios had touched the low point since mid-2025, and that block chain revenues were continuing to flow to Solana, Tron and Hyperliquid。

Competition patterns are changing rapidly. His chart shows that the blue Etherum used to be very dominant, but recently the distribution of income has become more even。

Laura Shin:I have a feeling that EF or Vitalik either don't realize that there's such a big competition going on or don't care. What do you think they realize that the competition is just beginning

Zak Cole:I THINK THEY DIDN'T REALIZE AT ALL. IN THE PAST, THERE WERE ETH KILLERS, LIKE EOS, MANY OF THEM AIR PRODUCTS. BUT SOONER OR LATER, SOMEONE WILL BUILD A CAR THAT LOOKS COOLER AND REALLY FASTER。

In the past, Etheium had been the coolest, with the best technology, researchers and mind share, which made many people complacent and lazy. I think they didn't put their ears on the ground, and it's out of line。

BUT IT'S NOT TOO LATE. I DON'T TOTALLY ACCEPT SLOGANS LIKE "LET ETH WIN AGAIN." I STILL THINK ETH DID WELL, BETTER THAN ANY OTHER NETWORK. THE WHOLE MARKET'S DOWN, AND IT'S ABOUT AI STEALING ATTENTION. THERE ARE A LOT OF BRIGHTER THINGS THAT ATTRACT YOUNG PEOPLE。

Cripto used to be hot, but now it's more like a standard component in a technology warehouse; AI is new and is attracting young people and talent。

Laura Shin:Greg, what do you think about EF's attitude or perception of competition

Greg Markou:I don't think they're completely ignorant. But to what is happening, I am sure that many people are not paying serious attention to other ecology. ChainSafe has done many of the nodes and infrastructure of the mainstream block chain, and we often bring back ideas that look good in other chains, and I'm often responding that I don't know the chain. This is the usual pattern。

THEY MAY KNOW THE DATA, BUT IT'S A DIFFERENT THING TO CARE ABOUT WHY ANOTHER ECOLOGY DOES IT, WHY USERS CHOOSE IT. IT'S A BIG MISTAKE TO SAY THEY DON'T KNOW; I'M SURE THEY KNOW, BUT IT'S PROBABLY AN ARROGANT, "NO COMPETITION" MENTALITY: ETH KILLERS COME EVERY ROUND, THEY LEAVE。

What should the Etherwood Foundation do

Laura Shin:In your ideals, what happens next? What should we do? Is an external organization needed? Zak, you can also talk about ECF。

Zak Cole:The ECF was always there to pressure the EF. Over the past year, we have delivered much with little budget and small teams, focusing on Etheium, providing some funding to build needed public infrastructure and consumer-oriented products。

On a longer line, my ideal situation is Vitalik and EF stop bullshitting. You can say that you have no control and that this is decentrized, but the Court and reality will not look at your statement, but at the results and the actual implementation。

Which chain would become the main chain in the event of a controversial fork? It's going to be the chain that EF says because Circle and Tether will choose to redeem their assets on that chain. They don't want to take legal responsibility for making their choices, so they follow the EF, and the EF eventually follows Vitalik. That is the reality. You can publish a lot of weird comics and say you're not responsible, but it's useless. EF is responsible。

It is possible to accept responsibility. I actually want them to be responsible. You create this child, you send it to school. Grow up, diversify boards, bring in people from all parts of the industry who know more about products than you do, who know better about companies and who have more entrepreneurial experience than just writing 20-year white papers and doing academic highs。

Tomasz was excited when he came in, it was like a step in the right direction, but they drove him away and returned to the infinite garden. We, the ECF, have made a transparency dashboard that records how every penny is spent, even if someone buys a retrograde pin, in the transparency report。

We need to run Etherum like a company. Whether or not you feel corporate evil, the organization must function properly. A functioning organization and CROPS principles are not contradictory. Greg and the companies that I run for over a decade have lived and died on these principles, but they have never prevented us from professionalizing, clarifying and expanding our organization。

WE CAN MAKE THE AGENCY COMFORTABLE AND NOT SELL OURSELVES ENTIRELY TO BANKS. WE DIDN'T ENTER THE INDUSTRY TO BECOME INSTITUTIONAL INVESTORS OR QUALIFIED INVESTORS, BUT BECAUSE THE CROPS PRINCIPLES DROVE US. BUT IF WE CANNOT APPLY THOSE PRINCIPLES TO REAL WORLD OPERATIONS, THEY HAVE NO REAL VALUE. SO MAKE THEM COME TRUE。

WHETHER EF TAKES RESPONSIBILITY FOR ACCEPTING THE NEED FOR ECOLOGICAL COOPERATION FOR PRICE, ECOLOGICAL COOPERATION AROUND THE MARKET, MAKING NARRATIVES UNDERSTANDABLE, OR ANOTHER ORGANIZATION, EF MUST TRULY GIVE CONTROL OVER THE MICROPHONE. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO DOES IT, AS LONG AS THEY KNOW WHAT IS NEEDED TO EXPAND THE ROAD MAP。

Laura Shin:I agree, EF did not use ETH and ETH prices as tools in the toolbox, and it could have done so. Zak, you're leaving soon, but the last question: Vitalik says EF will appoint new board members. What are your recommendations on processes, types of candidates or specific candidates

Zak Cole:I don't think this should be like DAO, and it shouldn't be decided by all ETH holders. I'm not talking about extremes, but I think it's a real company. The introduction of people representing the different fields of Etheleum can contribute knowledge and judgement and understand what is really necessary. There should also be people on the board who know the mainstream media and PR。

IF EF DOESN'T WANT TO DO THIS, AT LEAST DON'T CREATE A PUBLIC RELATIONS CRISIS AND MAKE EVERYONE LOOK BAD. EITHER DO IT OR SHUT UP. YOU CAN LEAD, FOLLOW, OR MAKE WAY. NOW THEY SEEM TO HAVE NO CHOICE, WHICH IS VERY FRUSTRATING. I KNOW I SOUND A LITTLE OUT OF CONTROL, BUT I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR MORE THAN A DECADE, GOING THROUGH CYCLES AND SEEING A BUNCH OF PEOPLE LEAVE。

Laura Shin:Zak, you can go if you want. I also want Greg to answer two questions。

Zak Cole:I'll go first, thanks for the invitation。

Laura Shin:Thanks, Zak. Nice talking to you. Greg, the first question is about Frank Chaparro and whether you think EF is aware of competition。

Greg Markou:As I said earlier, if no one pays attention to these data at all, it is irresponsible on the part of the fiduciary duty. Everyone on Twitter can see what's going on, so they know there's a competition. It is different to know that competition exists and to understand the technological edge of competitors and why users choose. The latter may not become more common until recently。

In the past, they would have said that they had spoken with the community, but that was not the same as dialogue with members of the community who were actually users. Many times in history, they say that no one has heard of them, as if no one has heard of Bastian. The situation is changing, but I'd be surprised if they didn't see competition。

I just think a lot of people inside don't care. They say, "We have moat, we have DeFi, we have mobility."。

Laura Shin:My concern is that their own lack of care will cause Etherum to lose in competition. I also said in The Defiant podcast that CROPS might win in the long run, but will win in the short term? I don't think so. Because among the non-encrypted ordinary people I know, it's almost zero。

Other competitors are going to the places where these people are, to contact them in a way they understand, and Etheum is still in a encrypted punk gesture。

Ninety-eight percent of the people are not in this circle, and the other chains and platforms are fighting for ordinary people. If Etheum loses in the short term, it may still win in the long term; but if it loses in the short term, it may also lose the chance to win in the long term. That's what I'm worried about。

Greg Markou:You have to try to expand your luck. Winning takes a lot of factors and a lot of luck, and you must maximize your exposure. Zak was right about that document, it was bad。

I'd be much more satisfied with cleaning it up into a clearer version, and more easily accepted. It's hard to read now. This lack of awareness drives some decision-making, putting Etheleum at risk of losing。

I don't think Estherum will lose. To be honest, it has too many advantages. But ETH prices are another problem。

Laura Shin:I think if they fix tokenomics and really want to fight for Etheum, instead of just letting the principles out in an empty way, Etheium is probably going to win. Otherwise, I can only say whether these principles are magically attractive。

FINALLY ON THE BOARD. NOW THAT THE EF REALLY WANTS TO INCREASE THE BOARD, HOW DO YOU EXPECT THIS TO HAPPEN? WHAT KIND OF PERSON SHOULD IT BE, OR DO YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC CANDIDATE

Greg Markou:Systematically, we need adults in the room. I can't find Bastian, but look at the other EF teams, a lot of people don't have experience managing large businesses or organizations. It's not that they must have a traditional business background, but you need someone who really understands the scale business and knows what has to change。

EF holds 13 basis points (basic points, approximately 0.13 per cent; as mentioned earlier in the text, about 0.16 per cent), which does not sound much, but is still a large sum of money. They must first be in charge. Secondly, I hope they continue to cut out more and rely on other organizations to do so。

KEEP IT SIMPLE, FOCUS ON RESEARCH, THAT'S WHAT WE NEED THE EF TO DO. IN THE ECOLOGY, THERE ARE MANY INDEPENDENT, GOOD TEAMS WITH DIFFERENT BUDGETS, AND MANY THINGS CAN BE DONE。

On the board, I do not want it to continue to be an internal promotion, just like an internal family enterprise. That would not be visible or accountable. We should see outsiders joining us, those who have really carried their necks out over the past few years and taken risks for Etheium。

I am not sure who exactly, and be careful not to make a king in this process. But I might add two or three more beachheads from different fields: one or two from DeFi, or at least observer seats on the board。

I do not know whether such an arrangement exists in the Swiss Foundation structure, but the concept is similar. People like Kane, Stani, who have different positions, have long supported the network。

It could also bring in people in different but adjacent fields, such as those with management experience in large open-source organizations. A standard & Poor 500 company must have operated a large-scale organization that could make recommendations on how to operate. The point is to choose the battlefield。

Laura Shin:I wrote a moment in my book: they tried to recruit Brian Behlendorf of Hyperledger, but it was not possible because of the political factors associated with the Executive Director of the EF at the time。

Greg Markou:That's the point: it's too family-owned now. Those who have been leading these things should be introduced from the outside world. If we can do both, I think it would be very helpful for the community。

Laura Shin:Greg, it's good to talk to you, and it's good to have Zak just joined. I know this discussion will continue, and it has been going on for years. The next thing you know is what happens to the EF. Obviously, community responses are not positive, and I wonder if they will accept feedback, perhaps, perhaps not. We'll see。

Original Link